Rant about Occupy values

[Mireille]

I was thinking of waiting after the training to bring this up, which is why I didn’t say anything at the meeting, but I’ve decided to just throw it out there, at the expense of possibly alienating myself further from this group. Sorry if anyone if offended by anything I say next, but it is coming from a place of frustration.

I am REALLY DISAPPOINTED that no one ever assumes the responsibility of taking notes or at least summarizing what is talked about at GA, or any meeting for that matter. If I am not there, it doesn’t happen. I thought we had agreed that this was one way to mitigate what happened with the OMF split. We haven’t had a formal GA in ages, yet the times I’ve attended, I have found ways to summarize what was discussed, even without taking notes. All these “Occupy values” we espouse - how do we expect newcomers to adopt these values when we can’t even as a small group follow through with any of them? What happened to transparency? I don’t care if you talked about the bird shit on the benches. I want to know about it or I’ll feel SHUT OUT. Imagine someone who is not as involved would feel if they can’t even skip one meeting without feeling like they missed something. It doesn’t matter if nothing important was said or if the things that have been said before are said again. We’ve set aside this time to come together as a group and discuss things, at least let others know what happened or what was discussed. If we can’t get this part right now, do this simple task EVERY TIME, then there is no hope that our group will grow and hold the interest of new participants for longer than one or two meetings. Keeping up just becomes overwhelming. Yes, for others with less stake or need to be informed, this may not be an big issue, but for those who step up to be part of working groups, this will be beyond important. I particularly, feel the stress of keeping the website updated and the public at large informed. Even if there is only one solitary soul out there trying to keep up with us, it is more than worth it for me to do this for them. Something like this, just to keep continuity with the task is good enough:

www.occupymelbournefl.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=gamin&thread=184&page=1#835

And I wasn’t even there! It is not even about what is written, it is about doing something for the benefit of the group and those who weren’t there. Why can’t SOMEONE ELSE step up once in a while FOR CHRIST SAKE?! This is part of what we are working towards, this is what our group is about, and we can’t get this one stupid mundane task done. No one likes to be told what to do yet no one takes the initiative to do the administrative work that will keep us open and transparent. I am not your den mother, I am not a cat herder, I don’t want to be that. I am an adult, you are all adults, take some responsibility for the group once in a while and contribute to making this group accessible, open, welcoming, informative, available but also focused. We can’t get that done by being all loosy goosy and noncommittal all the time. All this talk about “we are all leaders”. We can’t be all “leaders” when everyone is sitting back waiting to be prompted by someone else to do something for the group. And then not even doing that! We may be individuals, but we’ve made this voluntary, but hopefully solid, commitment to take part in and be part of something TOGETHER. I feel like I have all your backs, maybe you all have each others backs, but NO ONE ever has my back. That is seriously depressing. The end.

[gm0ney]

As far as I know, nothing of importance was really discussed. We just reviewed what we were already doing.

BUt then, I was late.

THe stuff we are doing this week is a lot even though it's been in the works for a while and folks are busy with life and such in addition to Occupy.

Sorry I can't be any more help...

[James]

I apologize. You do a lot for the group. You're points are valid. Notes will be taken, and procedures upheld. I just get upset, and feel useless easily.

[Mireille]

Excuses, excuses. You didn't read what I wrote. Or you didn't get it at all. But thanks for at least giving my rant the courtesy of consideration.

EDIT: The above was in response to Gary, posted it seconds after James' post.

But in response to James:
The bossiness "EVERYONE" was talking about? Didn't have much weight coming from a casual observer, but if this is truly an issue and it has been discussed outside of that thread on the facebook group page then it would be helpful if it is brought out in the open. I just don't know how to work with this group without trying to pull teeth all the time. If I am constantly proding and asking for information, requesting things, and just generally being a pain in the ass, and ALWAYS being ignored, then obviously there is some level of cooperation that as a "clerk", to reduce my contribution as such thank you very much, I am not getting. Is it my problem? Possibly. But I want to know how I can keep things updated and think about all the logistics of events and such without any help or timely input from anyone.

I wasn't discounting any efforts outside of "menial clerical niceties" AT ALL. I was talking specifically about those menial duties and how they give the group some continuity. It is not about how I prefer things to be done. It is what we ALL decided is how it should be done. Remember? I don't have a preference as to how they are done, just that they ARE DONE somehow, and hardly anyone ever steps up to do those things..without prompting or pleading. So I try to make things easy and almost painless by making "unintuitive" forms and handouts and shit. I don't do it because I like to do it, and possibly contrary to what everyone might believe, I don't have tons of free time and resources, but FOR WHATEVER REASON, I feel I have a responsibility to the group and I take it seriously. Especially when trying to maintain a site so that it doesn't seem like a vacant wasteland of irrelevant and stale information. But I need input because I can't be everywhere and I need help with that.

Anyway, as I said, this is coming from a place of frustration not just that a summary of the GA wasn't posted (that is just the icing on the cake) but also that NO ONE bothered to see this training video that everyone was complaining wasn't being provided soon enough, before today at the meeting. ..for starters.

And by loosy goosy, I mean everyone has strong opinions and ideas about how things should be but their is no action put behind that. i.e. where's the GA script? Was my GA agenda form unintuitive? So make a new one or suggest changes (by the way, if by unintutive you mean it has to be read rather than just glanced at like a chart and magically instantly absorbed and understood, then yes, I guess it is uintuitive). Are these silly clerical things that serve no real higher purpose other than "it's nice"? Maybe. But collect dozens of these niceties and then it all becomes a big wad of nothing ever getting done. Maybe you are all fine with that. And perhaps this is where I am going wrong...I don't know.

[Jessica]

I see the importance in taking notes and I think it is definitely something we should be doing. I understand you are feeling frustrated because you do a lot of work for this group and maybe feel under appreciated or that the rest of us are not pulling our weight. Maybe this is all true but if you are dedicated like I am then we must find away to work with our groups tendency towards flightiness, I would hate to see any of us leave the group because of that. We all have our roles to play in this and in time with dedication and discipline we will get it together.

If you would like I will take notes at every GA that I attend. I really think you vital to this group and I don't want you to leave.
I'm sorry you felt this was the only way you could reach us or get us to take you seriously on this matter or any matter at that.

Don't be afraid to start a dialogue ever. I can only speak for myself but I will definitely listen.

[Mireille]

Thanks, Jessica for your encouraging input. I added some more to the rant after James' post above before I saw this. (That's the problem with forum's, if you don't quote, active threads can get disjointed). Anyhow, I hate this to become about appreciation for what I do. I am not looking for acknowledgement or praise. Maybe I am just looking for a level of input no one is willing to make or no one feels is important for this group. I guess it is hard for me to translate what I envision for this group (which I thought is what everyone else envisions, but maybe I am wrong) without taking consistent concrete steps toward making it a reality. I feel it takes these little procedural steps and tasks to get things to a certain level of maturity and consistency.

[Mireille]

Sorry, James, I don't mean to make anyone feel useless. I think this conversation is getting all disjointed with everyone going back and modifying their responses. That's why I do EDIT in my old posts if I make changes, in case anyone is wondering.

I don't think anyone is useless or not pulling their weight. Just that it seems no one is seeing the value of these mundane tasks such as taking notes, reading relevant input, being prepared for a task oriented meeting, etc and how they bring us closer to being a more cohesive and inclusive group. I don't know.

I need to reflect on what I am doing here. I don't want to continue to make things uncomfortable for anyone, but I also don't want to be having anxiety attacks because of my need for order and process is not being met. Seriously, maybe I need to be away after this month's activities are over just so you guys can figure out what you want to happen with the group without my constant harrassment...

[James]

I am sorry. I really don't want participating in this group to be a triggering experience for you. I should have never posted that stuff, and that is why I outright deleted it. It doesn't belong in the conversation. It was completely reactionary, and I hope that no grudges will be harbored. I mean I guess I could have left it so the truth could be shown of my jerk-ery...

I know you do a lot, and I know that I personally don't always respond to it in an acknowledging or productive way. You should take a break, but not forever! I am sorry that I let anger provoke a damaging knee-jerk response. I will do what I can to not let it happen again.

I never want to diminish anyone's efforts or experience.

[Mireille]

James, I think your original response did belong in the conversation. Perhaps if anything to show how my constant stream of information may cause some unintended pressure or stress for others. It wasn't damaging. Plus my rant was reactionary as well, though a delayed response to the GA being described as uneventful and thus implying the notes by extension as unnecessary...

[gm0ney]

If you you infer anything by what I said, maybe you reading into things too much.

I don't take minutes because I tried it once, and I was total SHIT.

As for your the other stuff: You know what.... I'm really trying hard not to burn bridges here, but I'm very very tempted to just quit. YOU ARE FILLING ME WITH SOOOO MUCH RAGE!!!!

It really ticks me off when you say I didn't read it or understand what you wrote: I DID!

You have a lot of stuff: SO DO I!!!
I feel overloaded with way too much stuff, way more that I want to do. I only decided to do things I did because I saw that they needed to get done and no one else was stepping up to the plate (not out of being lazy nessisarily, I don't just assume that about people) and I wanted it to happen.
And it just seems like you, Mireille, are just accusing me personally of laziness, dimishing my contribution. And I just feel like if we as a group are going to back-bite each other like this, I don't want to take part. THIS IS THE REAL REASON PEOPLE DONT STAY!!!

[gm0ney]

I should add that I have done a lot of things out of solidarity that I would not have done, but made the time for, putting back my schedule, getting grades lowered and losing paying work as a result. Including things YOU wanted to do, Mireille. So don't diminish my contribution.

[Mireille]

I am sorry Gary that you feel I am diminishing your contribution. This wasn't directed at you in particular..or anyone. I do notice that you consistently do things out of solidarity and just generally support what everyone is doing, not just in this group, but also the other group. And I do appreciate it, very much, more than you imagine. But again, this wasn't about people's specific commitment or weighing contributions. It just about simple follow through with doing things people agreed were important, even though they are mundane and boring.

Yes, note taking is SHIT. That's why I don't even take notes where we are at this point - the formality is not necessary at this level and with this amount of people, especially since we are not exercising the GA/direct democracy format. Did you see me take notes two weeks ago at the first meeting at Fee? No. I just simply took the time to summarize what we spoke about after the fact. What is wrong with asking at the start of the meeting - "hey, who can take some notes?" or "who can post a summary about this meeting later?" That is all.

I've requested this before, and people have unwillingly complied here and there, but it is just generally seen as just a big fat piece of bullshit and everyone is all too willing to let it all default to the idiot who is too organized for her own good. Well, what happens when the idiot is not there? Screw any process. Screw her too I guess...

[evanne]

Screw everybody, but only in the nice way. (Have to squeeze in a dirty joke somewhere.)

Mireille, you are right about at least just a summary or something. And you're right that it wouldn't really be that difficult to spend a minute talking about who's going to do it at the beginning or the end of the meeting. I can post something up from this past GA, but next time we should totally try to get it to be someone other than you or I, lol. These jobs need to circulate. Yes it's crappy, but everyone has to take their turn cleaning the toilets as it were. If the jobs don't get moved around they become roles. By not taking up one of the 'undesirable' facilitation tasks we are all forcing roles on others that they do not desire and are contrary to the way we all want the group to work.

Everybody is contributing what they can. I don't feel like we can judge anyone else's contributions, only our own, and that should be only within the context of if you are contributing enough to satisfy your own desire for involvement. We don't ever know what other people are dealing with and participation should never become about comparing our sacrifices to the movement. The 1% already asks us for enough sacrifices.

If you feel as though you need to step back for awhile, Mireille, I can respect that, but don't be gone for too long! We need you! We need everybody!

Love to all you guys! And many hugs!

[gm0ney]

Sorry.. God I hate how I get sometimes...

It's OK to AGREE on a deadline -that would be democratic. Personally, I just don't like not having a say or allowed to have a voice.

I.E. saying "I think this would be a good idea if we..." or "I think this it should be this way because..." or " I need things to be this..." is fine, but not "this is what we are doing..." or "it has to be this way..."
(I am not accusing people of doing this, just explaining my own thoughts)

I DO think it is OK to have somebody to totally get what they want if no compromise can be reached, as long as the other side get's to do that later on -or else we can just agree to comprimise in a way that no one is satified -but only if we can be happy with that.