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Post by Solus Hospes on Nov 8, 2011 17:24:59 GMT -5
I thought it might help us work together more fluidly if we understood where each of us are coming from. Our perspectives are shaped by our experiences so each one of us is a bit (or a lot) different but that doesn't equate to better or worse, right or wrong.
We're all here for our own reason(s) and we all have different ideas about what we want to accomplish within this Revolution but where we are all the same is our collective desire to better the world we live in. I'd like to get the stories, the individual worlds of the people volunteering their time and resources to this Revolution, to this Occupy Melbourne, FL.
So c'mon, don't be shy. No one is judging here, we're just sharing and relating for a better understanding. Let us know where you come from, what sort of work you do or have done, the things in your life which make you happiest, the things in your life which trouble you the most. Share what you're comfortable sharing and help us get to know you, the individual behind the ideas.
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Post by James on Nov 9, 2011 1:31:25 GMT -5
I am an anarchist. There, I said it. I feel better. How 'bout you? Now, what that means is that I believe that voluntary involvement of federated individuals is the only way to organize a society without oppression. This is why I am involved with this group. I don't care about politicians. I don't care about the government. I don't care about taxes or the Fed or even the banks, really. I don't care about any of those things on any other terms other than the fact that I feel all of those institution limit an individual's ability to act on a voluntary basis; to be federated. What I do care about is you. All of you. The people here in this community, my community, are the people that I want to be involved with. I want us to be federated individuals, and I want to work together to create a space where we can all participate voluntarily. Together, we will do what we must by doing what we can when we feel we can. I wrote a very long thing some time ago that I planned on printing, but I haven't gotten around to it. So, I will post it here. It might help explain where I am coming from, and I why I push the GA process more than specific action or proposals. Read it or not, I respect you all, and want nothing other than your voice and participation. docs.google.com/document/d/1g48oCTJFGsaZ_BCP650bLUY5SAVEftnw0dga9TRUpCM/editAside from that stuff, I love debates, new information, and legit open discussion. I read a lot: Philosophy, politics, history, 'literature', science fiction(i.e. Dune series, Isaac Asimov's stuff, Ursula k. LeGuin, am currently reading William Gibson's Neuromancer(ITS GREAT!))and fantasy(primarily 'high fantasy' like Tolkien). ALL THE BOOKS! I also love music. I grew up on bands like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. Currently I am obsessed with dubstep that is not Skrillex or deadmau5, 20th century 'avant garde' composers, the avant rock groups that were inspired by them, and some jazz. I also dig punk, hardcore, and grindcore as that is what I was into in High School. As a musician expression or art as a means for conveying an identity, understanding or observation of reality or non-reality is something that is also central to my personality. But that is a much more difficult thing to explain...
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Post by Solus Hospes on Nov 9, 2011 11:51:47 GMT -5
Wow, James. Thank you for sharing that. You covered the basics very deeply and fluidly in that essay/article you linked. It was a good read even if it was a hard read. Truth hurts these days and that's such a sad thing. Thank you for sharing about yourself.
As for me, I may only be twenty-five but I have also come to learn that age is a number that marks the passage of time. It is not indicative of the personality of the individual which is shaped by their experiences. I don't want to share my sob stories because that's not the point, but I do want to share the lessons I learned in hopes you (all) can better understand where I come from. Why I am so driven and that I truly don't ever mean to hurt/harm/or otherwise make anyone uncomfortable. I have only my own experiences and perspectives to work from unless you share your own. I encourage everyone to do that so we might reach understandings.
I learned before first grade if I wanted to eat, I had to work. By Second grade I learned that there are bad people in the world who's minds have gotten twisted and that no one can really protect you but you. By fifth grade I knew that just because you work doesn't mean you actually get to eat, or that if you really want to eat, you have to be inventive and think outside the socially accepted box.(i.e. making bread out of cake mix, using ketchup for spaghetti sauce, or eating cereal infested with sugar ants.)
By junior high I knew the justice system was corrupt. I learned that family isn't in the blood that pumps in your veins but in the actions of those you love. By highschool, I learned that the education system was also corrupt but that's where I found my passion. Art. I found that all the things I didn't know how to explain I could express in color, shape, and imagery through paint, chalk, pastel, ink and really any medium I could get my hands on with what ever time I could manage between work and school and volunteering.
That's my other passion, animals. I found comfort and solace in volunteering at a ranch that teaches the handicap to ride horses and in fostering sick cats and kittens when I wasn't helping with off-site adoption events for the local shelter. That giving back helped me find balance with the atrocities that just seemed to keep piling up in my personal world. I didn't even want to look outside that to see the atrocities suffered by all people.
By Graduation in 2004 I got my first taste of what it feels like to be laid off, learning that nothing is promised even when it's promised. That was followed by a harder lesson of letting go when Hurricane Frances took everything I owed but my car, a box fan, some clothes protected by a fallen wall and my artwork secure in an old waterproof army trunk. Ever since, I've never owned more than I can fit in my car.
In 05 I learned that people are capable of anything when they're backed into a corner and that you don't have to be proud of the things you've done so long as you learn from them and try to be a better person with them in mind. By April of 06 I learned that death can be at your doorstep and still avoided if you have the will to live and the mind to make the changes that need to be made. I realized that doctors prefer to treat the symptoms rather than the problems on the whole because it makes them more money. Yay for natural medicine!
In 07 I had to learn that anger is like drinking poison and waiting for the issue to die first. I learned to let go of the things I was angry about and embrace making change to better it instead. Using the outrage to set things right. By 08, I counted myself lucky and largely happy. Unaware of the crisis going on because I've never owned a TV and didn't read the news if it didn't effect me personally. It was a comfortable happy bubble that was delusional to reality. Something I was starting to learn in 09 with the aid of an insistent sister.
Once you're eyes are opened to the large scale injustices, you can't unsee it. By 2010 I lost my mind almost literally. I couldn't take what I learned about the world in addition to the battles I fought at work to get better conditions and regulations for me and my co-workers without a union. Escalations Management is a tough job in itself but not having the right tools or support broke me. I walked with death from Valentines day till Christmas that year and I was ready to give up on everything. I wondered what the point of it all was if I just kept getting snagged by the rip-currents of oppression and pummeled by tightly set waves of inevitability.
I still don't know everything, but the more I learn the more I want to learn. I know that understanding doesn't come from talking to people, it comes from talking WITH people. I know that even if you combined all 7 billion minds of the world into one, we still wouldn't know everything and since I cannot do that, I can listen. I can watch. I can act on what I see and hear and believe. I can make change while I have the time because I have the power of free will. I can choose to work with people I don't like, who don't make me feel good about humanity because I know they're just like me. An individual with free will who's personality is shaped by their experiences.
Unless I know what they've been through, I can't pretend to understand their motives or mind.
Sorry that was so long, and again I ask more of you to share. Truly and honestly I feel if we get to know each of us as the people we are that we can let go of our differences and work together for the goals we share commonly.
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Post by Mireille on Nov 9, 2011 20:05:37 GMT -5
Thank you James and Mandy for sharing all that. You are incredible people. Perhaps I will share something soon, but for now I just wanted to make a few comments/ask questions. James, I am fascinated by everything you expressed in your essay but I would like to understand what it means in practical terms. Do you just pursue the anarchist philosophy in any way you can while still submitting to oppression in order to survive or are you able to exist and thrive in a different reality that is different than the rest of us, i.e. by seeking and participating in these voluntary interactions you describe? How does this play out in a larger scale or is there a limit to its viability? How does human nature play into it? Are you saying that these profit and greed driven systems is what causes us to behave unethically rather than we create these systems because competition and survival of the fittest is at the core of our humanity? Sounds like it would require fundamental shifts in the way we think about each other, the world we share and how we raise our children. I know individuals can do it, but collectively there seems to be a dynamic that keeps perpetuating hate, fear, prejudice, oppression, insert negative mindset here. Is it these systems we create or is it our humanity? Why do we even create these oppressive systems? Am I even making any sense?
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Post by Solus Hospes on Nov 10, 2011 1:30:52 GMT -5
Mireille, excellent questions! Sometimes I find it so hard to distill my mind into words and sentences but you made those questions seem natural. lol Thank you for posing them like that. So yes, you made perfect sense. I can't answer for James or his ideals but they don't seem to be that far from mine in being a Quantum Activist. (Which for the purpose of understanding can be summed up as an understanding of the universe and your place in it. In realizing that your thoughts have substance and how everything you do -including what you think- has an impact on the world around you and thus applying that knowledge in your day to day.) I personally don't believe there is such thing as human nature. Humans evolve, so we're ever changing based on our circumstances. Not every individual is okay with doing bad things while others are. This alone tells me it's not something hard-wired, it's a choice. I suppose I also think this because of my life and family. I come from a long line of bad people who've done very bad things but though their genetics are in me, though bad things were done to me, I'm not like them. This also serves as proof to me that it's not "human nature" but individual choice. That said, the simplest answer really is "be the change you wish to see." History shows this is the most effective way to enact change aside from making something obsolete. Change yourself first, show others how you did it if and when they want to know or offer it freely for who ever may not have realized they wanted to know until they know. Resent large scale real world application: Bank Transfer day. Banks are corrupt--->People loose faith in their system and want change---->Banks say no (or make worse changes) and individuals made their own change (mostly to credit unions), then they shared it with the world and others saw how much sense it made their own changes too. Resent small scale real world application: Police officers in Albany (the first case I heard of) refusing orders to do violence (shoot rubber bullets, tear gas, and flash-bangs at occupiers). News was spread and other City PDs followed. I wouldn't be surprised to learn if it was one cop who spoke up and said "No, I wont because..." and their co-workers/friends/family (since the cops I know know are usually all of the above to one another) agreed and made their individual choices to change too. I think the changes we want to get out of an oppressive society have less to do with how we think of each other and more to do with how we think about ourselves and the effects we have on others. I could go on for hours I think but since its already 0130, I'm going to leave it at that for now and hit the sheets. Thank you again Mireille, this actually improved my mood.
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Post by James on Nov 10, 2011 20:34:14 GMT -5
"I think the changes we want to get out of an oppressive society have less to do with how we think of each other and more to do with how we think about ourselves and the effects we have on others." YES! As this has more to do with what we will actually do, and interaction is how we build meaning and in order to change oppression we have to rebuild what it means to be a person because human nature is assumed as violent and aggressive and competition and survival of the fittest which is just a really bad interpretation of what Darwin said but what about punctuated equilibrium or survival of the fit enough cooperation or social tribal behavior which is how the humans survived the first few hundred thousand years before we created this systems that generate manufactured wants through manufactured scarcities so we have wars and poverty and inequality and...oppression and the very few that benefit from us ignore what them there. I like a good run-on every know and then. ;D I think these oppressive structures were created by people to benefit only a few people; that they were born out of fear of a failure to organize resources for a growing population, or something. But this is a vaguely founded hypothesis. I think that greed and violence have a place within the concept of human nature, but these are in know way defaults on which we tend toward. I feel that these things are there to keep us alive when our other natural behaviors fail. When gathering doesn't work, when cooperation doesn't work, when communication doesn't work, we get violent. We hunt, we steal, we fight. Read some Graeber! He has interesting things to say about this stuff. Also, right now we can only do so much, because these ideas are so internalized and ingrained in day to day action and interaction. Take white privilege for example. I don't remember the exact statistic, but more white men who are felons get interviews than african american men who are not. Something like that. These kinds of things stem from socialized notions about individuals. Meanings they have established through prejudice social scenarios. Or the idea that grocery stores actively keep starving people from getting food by not giving out for free. They can't give it out for free because they have to pay rent, and the poor can't afford bread because they have to pay rent as well. Why are we paying rent? Anyway, I hope these examples help somehow... The situation is quite grim, but there are things we can do. Like, "Socialize" the cost of food among friends when you go out to eat, those who can pay do, and those who can't don't, but everyone eats. Together we have to learn how to let everyone live. There is privilege and oppression all over the place, but we can at least learn about it and remove the way we act. Hopefully this will change things on a larger scale the more people get involved.
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Post by remmyhun on Nov 11, 2011 8:52:19 GMT -5
Just thought I'd share... I was talking to Twin [Mandy Elliott] about my icon phrase on the forum "Sometimes I say things because they need to be heard" the rest of that says "Sometimes I do it just to hear myself speak, especially when I'm using accents." .... it amused me.
Some people might consider me to be a few crayons short of a full box. In my not-so-humble opinion I think it's that I have too many[/i] crayons to fit in the box. So some of them get left out. I'd like to say I rotate those crayons so I'm not absent-minded in the same area or the same colors if you will. That being said, I'm a little unconventional. Obviously.
I was a good kid and a "psychotic" pre-teen/teen. I gave my family a taste of my hell and despite it all I don't regret any of it. I don't hate my parents for the choices they made that lead to certain events forever burned into my brain. They were learning experiences. Terrible or not all of them were teachings even if I didn't realize it at the time. Sometimes your mind has to hold onto the lessons until you're brain has matured enough to get what life is offering. The Quantum Consciousness for us Quantum Activists.
Starting around 13 I developed this compulsion for scenarios. A need to play out scenario's in my head of varying natures. Sometimes as simple as mentally following the path of a conversation I wanted to have with my parents. I would utilize what I knew and could remember of passed conversations and apply that to the one I wanted to have. Playing it out over and over in my head until I was satisfied. At any rate I mention these things because the compulsion has not stopped since then.
I can be quite childish and goofy even but inside I feel a g e d . I feel as though (through the scenario's) I've lived many lives. I have a fascination with human behavior, whether it's because of my compulsion or not doesn't concern me. For all the things I feel I know and understand I am very aware is it still so comparatively little[/i].
My Twin, Mandy, the things she[/u] knows sometimes humbles me. I like to think these things help to level me. Keep me balanced which aids in my patience. Patience comes best with understanding and in turn understanding fuels compassion. Compassion motivates action. The Occupy movement my Twin was talking about a short time ago was just a notion at first. Something she said and I nodded in agreement but only briefly considered.
The more she spoke the more I soaked it in and followed the pathology of the movement. The possibilities run in rapid succession through my head. Something clicked. A knowing. Be it truth or d e l u s i o n I cared not. Sometimes it's those wistful delusions that spawn into things far beyond what we'd originally even considered. I saw greatness. I saw awakenings not unlike my own. More importantly... I saw History[/u]. How profound a thing as that? History. Be it broadcasted over the vast International News broadcasts... or whispered by the people...
The 99%...
I smile even now thinking of it. I hear about the banks who start to quiver at the impact of the people and I know that it has begun. A revolution. The People's Revolution.
A plethora of new scenario's to ponder on and a feast of history to record and be part of. To experience in, motivate and pass on to anyone and everyone I can. It's not about any ONE[/u] person and I think that's what I like about it the most. I'm just 1 among the 99%... alone I make no difference but together none can silence the sounds of our voices. Together none can truly break us down though they might try to fragment us. Maybe even succeed. Like a lizard that grows back it's tail we'll repair. Together we create this bond that brings us back to our humanity. Sense of community. Friendship. Family. America was founded on townships and small cities... one at a time up to the present day.
I like the idea of our new townships. OccupyMelbourne. I like that we don't need the media to spread our word. Like the wild-west Pony Express we utilize what we have and we build ourselves a new nation; we do it from within. These things take time... all we have is time. If we personally reach the end of our clock's battery life we should rest assured this movement is too big, too important for the American People to not be carried on by those of the next generation.
I see it even now, how the people of many generations have joined together for this cause. It is these things that have inspired me to join. Inspired me to be a better person and to continue to use even the smallest of things as learning experiences. [/color]
I am Remmy Ar'emen. 1 of the 99%
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gm0ney
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by gm0ney on Nov 11, 2011 14:46:36 GMT -5
Thanks everybody, and James, I couldn't get the link to come up right...
But I would have to say, that I am almost a wanna-be anarchist -it depends on how you choose to define it. Not the totally chaotic, easy to co-opt, exploit or otherwise take over kind. I guess, a bettr definition would be that I like the kind of village or tribal way of doing things where there is a concensus about any major issues, where everyone is an equal and everyone is heard and their needs are met. But with that, there are some ciavates and modifiers: I still like organization and being part of something bigger. I would like to be able to do it in as un-hiarchical as possible, but there are some (emergency usually) situations that necessitate hierarchy. You don't want to have a discussion about how to handle the fire that's burning down your neighbors house, right. You just need one guy who knows what to do to direct everyone else in that instance. Also, we need a set of standards just so we can comunnicate with one another, preferably in a reliable, consistant obvious way (phonetic English anyone?) like having stop signs so people don't crash into one another. Obvious stuff right. But there is a reality that some people are just wiser than others, or who are experts in a particluar field and this needs to be recognised -not that they should rule or anything like that, and we should recognise these things. There are some rather clever fools who are able to persuade other people out there as well. So, i would say, practical anarchy? Is that a phase? I'm sure that will seem oxi-moronic to some.
EVen still, I think in a global context. The kind of goverment I describe only works well in small groups (at least for day to day stuff) and I would like to see more of a global community, world peace and fraternity -as we all do I'm sure. Ans I don't nessisarily want to see the end of corperations, mostly to return them to the original intent and purpose -to organise people for long term, complex goals that act to benifit humanity AND to provide a means for people to retire and have money to do what they want or need to acheive fulfillment (spiritual, intellectual) with the recognision that people's spirtual need for prosperity extend beyond mere subsistence levels. As for human nature, I am rather optomistic about what we are capable of being or seem to be right now. I see the system of forcing people to stuggle, to be more competitive just to make it as the main reason for suffering in the world, created from greed which is born out of a fear of security and scarcity. What the 1%ers don't realise is that they have more to gain by sharing what they have and can even turn a greater profit by moving toward a green economy. They have allowed the desire to live in opulence cloud their judgment and we may not have a future if all corperations are allowed to run the way of Wal-Mart, the Koch Brother and Goldmann Sachs. No one would mind so much if things were run in a loving compassionate way. Too much compitition forces people to go into survival mode which causes them to cut corners, become hateful and creates this dod-eat-dog world we live in now. I've seen it first hand how even single propirtors have to undercut each other even as they work together just to get by and they believe that it is the price of doing business. Since everybody is doing and it is all part of the game, and they all know it -it's a fair game. Honest, ethical people can't compete in this environment or must sell their own principles out. We need to get rid of this idea that struggling to get ahead is some kind of moral imperative that is good for the soul. The outcomes of crime, dishonesty, manipulation mental illness and the increasing rise ofdepression and death due to starvation and illness are proof of that. -It should be noted that when countries develop a certain level of prosperity the birthrate drops as people begin to see the advantage of having fewer children. So paradoxicly, solving the starvation and medicine crisis around the world will cause a decrease in the birthrate rather than an increase. So, in that sense I want things to change, but it must be done wholisticly and it indead requiers a change in the way we think about economy and commerce more so than in changing the laws -and THAT is harder to do. I think it WILL happen though. The next five years are going to see a radical shift in the way people think -for the better.
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Post by Mireille on Nov 11, 2011 15:55:15 GMT -5
We need to get rid of this idea that struggling to get ahead is some kind of moral imperative that is good for the soul. Interesting thought. As the parent of a single child I struggle with the idea of trying to raise a decent, caring, productive and happy human being - sheltering, advising against and discouraging certain behaviors, yet exposing him to the reality of life via experiences that mirror struggle, competition, evil, etc. to better equipt him for survival. Would I be raising a "wimp" in today's society if I tried teaching him to be unequivocally "good" and kept him from experiencing suffering?
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Post by remmyhun on Nov 13, 2011 10:09:36 GMT -5
We need to get rid of this idea that struggling to get ahead is some kind of moral imperative that is good for the soul. Interesting thought. As the parent of a single child I struggle with the idea of trying to raise a decent, caring, productive and happy human being - sheltering, advising against and discouraging certain behaviors, yet exposing him to the reality of life via experiences that mirror struggle, competition, evil, etc. to better equipt him for survival. Would I be raising a "wimp" in today's society if I tried teaching him to be unequivocally "good" and kept him from experiencing suffering? I don't have children, but I do a lot of thinking. Following the pathology of different people. I don't think "wimp" is the right word, though depending on the on-lookers personal perspective they may think so.
I know from experience it's far harder[/i] to do the right thing or to be "good" than it is to do whatever you want; or something "bad". Especially in this world, the way many people behave and more importantly... treat one another. I believe there's a balance of teaching our children "good" core fundamentals. Too, there is an importance to prepare them for the not so good. It's both the knowledge of what you SHOULD[/i] do (the good) coupled with the experience of life through the "bad" that make a person strong I think. For a child, often it's experience over words that sink the deepest into who they become later. You can tell a child the stove is hot all you want but sometimes, it's not until they touch it that they truly appreciate your warning. Sometimes children need this "sudden impact of reality" to evolve into a better person. I also believe the events, these impacts of reality are mirrored in importance with the bond of trust and guidance. The Parents who address the burn after the impact. I also don't believe there is a right or wrong in whether or not you reprimand them for touching it when you told them not to, or if you hug them and assure them it's alright, "they learned their lesson". I say no right or wrong answer because it would depend on your goals. If you want to help mold them to be tough, inside and out maybe you go the reprimand route, then show compassion later once they've gotten to sit on the knowledge of action-reaction. Everything we say and do effects people differently, including children. The truth is, no matter how hard you try to mold them there's the factor of their own personal thought process you can't account for. It's the constant curve ball they hurl your way. You can't pave them a straight line even if you tried. Best you can do no matter how you choose to handle things is be the rubber guards that keep the bowling ball in the lane. True, if they push hard enough they can get over your barriers but you still set the precedence. You still set the expectations. Okay, I'll shush now! lol. I get carried away. [/color] Remmy Ar'emen" People say things for a reason." - RRoE #18
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gm0ney
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by gm0ney on Nov 13, 2011 19:42:48 GMT -5
Teach'em Akido -it's true that you want your child to be able to stick up for himself but not take it too far. Martial Arts is good for that, teaches discipline, respect, honor, comitment and without being a bully. Akido specificially is supposed to be about peace in a weird way...
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Post by evanne on Nov 13, 2011 21:41:09 GMT -5
Aikido is also one where you are using the weight and strength of your opponent. It works best when used defensively (their momentum of attack becomes a liability) and is great for a smaller person defending against a larger attacker.
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